This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Joseph Mazes Special maintenance man born in 1916 in Ashland, Wisconsin, where he also lived. In this article, we will take a closer look at the story of theEdmund Fitzgeraldand explore why its sinking fascinates us all these years later. Memorials are held annually on November 10 to commemorate the lives lost on the Edmund Fitzgerald and throughout the Great Lakes. Allen Kalmon Second cook born in 1932 and lived in Washburn, Wisconsin. By the time conditions had worsened,the ship had lost a rail, two ventilators, and a radar array. Eugene OBrien Wheelman born in 1925 in Minnesota and lived in Toledo, Ohio. Quiz: How well do you know US presidents. The late 1800s was a busy period for Great Lakes commerce. Wilhelm was survived by wife Lorraine, seven children, and a grandchild born just four days after the Fitzgerald sank. The waves were so big that they started breaking over the ships decks, and the water washed over them. The U.S. Coast Guard revoked the 1973 Load Line Regulation amendment that allowed a reduced freeboard. For instance, do you know the interesting circumstances of its christening? On Lake Superior, ice volcanoes can appear as snowy hills but erupt with a mixture of ice, sleet, and water. Its a powerful, tragic story, Gandulla said. An investment was made by Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company of Milwaukee, the first of its kind by an American life insurance firm. Walton was survived by a wife and son Alan who worked on freighters too. The Canadian singer-songwriter was inspired to write lyrics about the disaster after reading The Cruelest Month, an article published by Newsweek on Nov. 24, 1975. Northwestern Mutual signed a 25-year contract that permanently chartered the freighter to Oglebay Norton Corporation, which made the ship its Columbia Transportation fleet flagship. Family Fun in Flint & Genesee County, How to Spend 48 Magical Hours in the Sanctuary of the Great Lakes, 7 Statements All Michiganders Can Agree On. He was in the Navy for 11 years, serving in WWII and the Korean War before being discharged as a first class fireman. No distress calls The museum is where the recovered bell from the ship is on display. F. God rest the souls of the Captain and crew. Free shipping for many products! Thousands of schooners, or sailing ships, and hundreds of steamers hauled cargo and passengers between bustling port cities such as Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland. John McCarthy On top of that, Amazon has a plethora of DVDs and books that you can purchase: As youre reading, you might see some unfamiliar terms if you dont sail or know much about ships. For 17 years, the Fitzgerald was a workhorse that often beat its own milestones in regard to load weight. Last updated on October 26th, 2022 at 06:39 pm. It was built with a double-hull design to protect against sinking, and it had a crew of 29 experienced sailors. Shortly after, theAndersonlost them on the radar, and no one could contact them. TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. (AP) Even for the Thunder Bay area, a perilous swath of northern Lake Huron off the Michigan coast that has devoured many a ship, the Irontons fate seems particularly cruel. For instance, it traveled between Superior, Wisconsin, and Detroit, Michigan, an average of 47 times per season, and this round trip usually took five days. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The company contracted Great Lakes Engineering Works for the ships construction in 1957, and the first keep plate was laid on Aug. 7. For accurate, immediate location data in the event of a disaster, all Great Lakes vessels are equipped with Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons. The NWS and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) ran a computer simulation in 2005 that included weather and wave conditions at the time the Edmund Fitzgerald sank. The lyrics were just too important. Valued at $7 million, the Fitzgerald had a 25-foot draft, rose 39 feet high and had a breadth of 75 feet. Setting six seasonal haul records, the record load was in 1969 for 27,402 long tons in a single trip. Cairns said in addition to the cost issue, he questions the value of removing the bodies from the lake bottom. He had more than 40 years of experience navigating oceans and the Great Lakes, assuming command of nine other ships before the Fitzgerald in 1972. St Olga of Kyiv: The Patron Saint of Vengeance, The 21 Most Infamous Mob Bosses of All Time, 9 of The Strangest Last Meals Ever Requested, 32 Beautifully Colored Photographs of Famous Peopl, What Actually Happened At The St. Brices Da, Ivar the Boneless: The life of the fearsome Viking, What Was a Day in the Life of an Average Roman Lik. Nolan Church Porter born in 1920 and lived in Silver Bay, Minnesota. The power to move those loads came from a Westinghouse Electric Corporation engine. It operates several historic properties the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum and Whitefish Point Light Station in Whitefish Point and the U.S. ``We computer-enhanced or varied the images to show what we want people to see, yet protected the identity of the human remains, Shannon said. Along with the captain, the other crew members of the Fitzgerald included porters, oilers, engineers, maintenance workers, cooks, watchmen, deck hands, and Dont know if he wrote the lyrics and composed the music but it is fantastic. Its usual route was from Superior, Wisconsin, to Toledo, Ohio, although the destination varied. Captain Dick Stevenson, Inventor of the Yukons Legendary Sourtoe Cocktail, Has Died, Grave Hunter: Mistress of the Macabre Digs Up Stories of the Dead. This song has always fascinated me. Weve put as much information about the vessel, wreck, and other interesting facts into this guide. Heres a list, Greek transportation minister resigns over train collision as death toll keeps rising. Blaine Wilhelm Oiler born in 1923 in Big Bay, Michigan, and lived in Moquah, Wisconsin. Hebard crewmen tossed lines and pulled all to safety except Ironton mate Ed Boswick, who couldnt muster the strength to hold on. Mazes loved ice fishing, deer hunting, and snowmobiling in his free time. Edward Bindon First assistant engineer born in 1928 and lived in Fairport Harbor, Ohio. Other than that, you might not know much more about the ship itself or the crew. But why specifically are waves like this dangerous for larger vessels? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. If you live in the Midwest, youve likely heard of the sinking of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald in November 1975 in Lake Superior, a tragedy that took 29 lives. Good article, however it sank in 530 so the bow didnt dive down and hit the bottom previous to sinking. The hypothesis is that the hull was already weak and carrying a heavier winter load than it was designed to carry. The name of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald came from the president and chairman of the board at Northwestern Mutual. At the time of its launch, the SS Edmund Fitzgerald was a milestone freighter. In most bodies of water, the bacteria that decay sunken bodies cause bloating, which makes the bodies rise to the surface. More than 15,000 people attended the June 7, 1958 christening and launch of the Fitzgerald. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. The average temperature of Lake Superior is about 36F, cold enough to inhibit bacterial growth and prevent bodies from rising. A 1977 investigation of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald found that sections of the ship were 170 feet apart. Glitches delay start of Florida recount for senator, governor. Underwater bacteria feed on human remains and create gas which causes bodies to float back to the surface. No survey equipment of any kind is allowed near the shipwreck without a license. However, none of these incidents were considered serious or unusual. The body is believed to be one of the 29 crew members who perished when the Fitzgerald sank in a violent storm on Nov. 10, 1975, said Fred Shannon, a businessman leading the three-day voyage to examine the wreck for a forthcoming documentary and book. By clicking Accept Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. The SS Edmund Fitzgerald received a safety award in 1969 for operating for eight years without a worker injury that resulted in time off. The U.S. Coast Guard, though, was able to send an HU-16 fixed-wing search aircraft from Traverse City, Michigan, which arrived in the search area at 10:53 p.m. An HH-52 helicopter with a high-powered searchlight arrived at 1 a.m. on Nov. 11. For instance, a 1999 consecration ceremony was held over the wreckage on Lake Superior and a dozen families attended. Rafferty was survived by wife Brooksie, daughter Pam, and several grandchildren. Once the longest freighter on the Great Lakes, the 729-foot ship was torn in half during a storm on November 10, 1975 and plunged into the black depths before the crew could escape or send out a distress signal. John Poviach Wheelman born in 1916 and lived in Bradenton, Florida. (Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary via AP). Claims unfounded, doctor says, Elizabeth Holmes gives birth, seeks to delay prison term, Death of housekeeper helped unravel Murdaughs secrets, Norfolk Southern offered sick pay for fewer inspections: Union, Ukrainian Parliament member traces war to Crimea annexation, KFC bringing back buzzworthy menu item for first time in nearly a decade, Trump now leading DeSantis as 2024 GOP nominee, polls show, Justin Bieber cancels remaining dates of Justice world tour, Live: Ohio governor joins officials for derailment cleanup update, USPS to purchase 9,000 electric vehicles, install 14,000 charging stations, USDA panel unveils recommendations to resolve discrimination in farming, Norfolk Southern CEO to testify before Congress, Murdaugh trial: What to expect from jurys crime scene visit. The Irontons captain and six sailors clambered into a lifeboat, but it was dragged to the bottom before they could detach it from the ship. He was sailing with his friend Frederick J. Beetcher at the time of the sinking. It was 25 years ago, on Nov. 10, 1975, that a snowy hurricane slammed into the Edmund Fitzgerald, one of the biggest, fastest ships on the lakes. 'The question is, can we get it? Click to reveal The shipwreck is generally believed to be in Canadian waters, about 17 miles northwest of Whitefish Point, Mich. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. barely able to pass through the Saint Lawrence Seaway, these types of dangers in the Great Lakes, the ship had lost a rail, two ventilators, and a radar array, The Lovers of Valdaro A Double Burial From Neolithic Italy. Mother Nature, or perhaps fate, had a different plan, though. Oliver Champeau Third assistant engineer born in 1934 and lived in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. The SS William Clay Ford responded, but the Toronto SS Hilda Marjanne was unable to assist because of the weather. If a boat is caught in a cresting failure, it can cause the vessel to hog. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7a1496f88d2920f5 But for some reason I always thought it was just made up. The ship had three central cargo holds, which were loaded through 21 hatches. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. They lost sons. Copyright 2023 The Associated Press. The extra weight from the water and the cargo probably caused the ships bow to dive into a wave wall and take on too much water. WebOn November 10, 1975 the SS Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior. The majority of them were from Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Reports at the time said the seven-member crew scrambled into a lifeboat but it was tethered to the ship and pulled down. Heres a complete list of the crew and their roles at the time of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald: Ernest McSorley Captain born in 1912. His belief is that the SS Edmund Fitzgerald was taking on water long before it sailed into the storm. It was part of the limited amount of debris discovered after the sinking. From the time of its first voyage on Sept. 24, 1958, the ship set six records by carrying heavier and heavier loads. Throughout the developing storm, the Fitzgerald communicated with other ships in the area, namely theAndersonandAvafor. However, there were no Marijuana laced with fentanyl? Historian Mark Thompson believes that the two lost vents allowed flooding in two ballast tanks or one ballast tank and the walking tunnel, which is what caused the list. Further amendments over the years have made it even harder to secure a license. Those who violate the Act could be fined up to $1 million Canadian. These were completed on Sept. 22, 1958, and the ship took its first voyage two days later. While the kit contains 602 LEGO pieces, the bricks are obtained through third parties, so its not actually a LEGO product. With the lake weather being so unpredictable and dangerous, though, an estimated 1,500 vessels have been lost in Michigan waters. They lost fathers. Its estimated that over 6,000 ships and 30,000 lives have been lost in the Great Lakes over its history due to how the Lakes affect ships. Michael Armagost Third mate born in 1938 and lived in Iron River, Wisconsin. Six of seven crew members died. Along with these products, you can find a lot of Edmund Fitzgerald merchandise on Etsy. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Ferocious storms can suddenly develop over the Great Lakes, sinking boats and ships of all sizes. Nothing so tragic has occurred on the Great Lakes since. WebFebruary 27, 2023 new bill passed in nj for inmates 2022 No Comments . Edmund Fitzgerald Crewman Discovered Great Lakes Shipwrecks and Rescues 4.42K subscribers 11K 4.3M views 10 years ago The third manned submersible On November 10, 1975, SS Edmund Fitzgerald and its crew of 29 men sank in Lake Superior. 1998 - 2023 Nexstar Media Inc. | All Rights Reserved. The Edmund Fitzgerald was later found in Canadian waters 530 feet below the surface of Lake Superior. Searchers have found the long-lost Great Lakes ship that came to a tragic end. why did take almost 4 days to set up the side scan sonar? The search lasted for three days, and only debris was found, such as lifeboats and rafts. The weather was notoriously unstable dense fog, sudden storms. HistoBrick has an SS Edmund Fitzgerald Lego Kit thats great for kids, collectors, and the young at heart. As a result, the huge waves that formed because of the storm, not necessarily rogue waves, caused a stress fracture that made the ship split in two when it struck the bottom of Lake Superior. The story of theEdmund Fitzgeraldis a tragedy, but its also a reminder of the dangers of shipping on the Great Lakes. The Associated Press obtained details of the discovery ahead of the announcement. Created by the Walt Disney of the Funeral Business, the Vidstone is a gravestone that memorializes your loved one with an embedded video of the deceased. Since the average temperature of Lake Superior is 36 degrees Fahrenheit, bacteria cant grow. The Ironton is yet another piece of the puzzle of Alpenas fascinating place in Americas history of trade, while the Thunder Bay sanctuary continues to reveal lost chapters of maritime history.. This wasnt a problem as the route would take them north toward the coast of Canada; the northern way would protect them from the massive waves generated by the storm. Heres a complete list of the crew and their roles at the time of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald: On Nov. 9, 1975, the SS Edmund Fitzgerald started on its final voyage. Because of that, the Fitzgerald quickly descended to the bottom of Lake Superior without warning. The 191-foot (58-meter) cargo vessel collided with a grain hauler on a blustery night in September 1894, sinking both. Was Fenns Treasure Really Found, or is He Planning Something Darker? McSorley was highly regarded for his skills, especially in heavy weather. Copyright 2023 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Then, on November 14, 1975, the boat sank in a violent When this happens, it can cause the boat to snap in half. According to maritime historian Frederick Stonehouse, the lounge always had snacks and the kitchenette always had drinks. The Edmund Fitzgerald was christened on June 8, 1958 where more than 15,000 people attended its launch. Now, the mystery has been solved, officials with Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary in Alpena, Michigan, said Wednesday. Scuba Certification; Private Scuba Lessons; Scuba Refresher for Certified Divers; Try Scuba Diving; Enriched Air Diver (Nitrox) Its where the upbound and downbound shipping kind of crossed each other, Gray said. The ship was carrying a cargo of iron ore pellets weighing about 26,100 tons, and it left fromSuperior, Wisconsin, heading to the steel mill onZug Island. Its believed that this phenomenon occurs on Lake Superior when three rogue waves that are one-third larger than the others form. Since April 2005, the Ontario Heritage Act has allowed the Ontario government to charge heavy fines for diving and operating side scan sonars, underwater cameras, and other submersibles without a license. During the ceremony, the bell rings 29 times for each of the lost crew members, and their surviving family members have the opportunity to participate. Thomas Bentsen Oiler born in 1952 and lived in St. Joseph, Michigan. Explorers in a mini-submarine spotted human remains on the floor of Lake Superior near the Edmund Fitzgerald shipwreck, the expedition leader said Wednesday. The Senate will be holding hearings on the derailment, which resulted in a toxic chemical spill in Ohio. But he said he concluded that the picture offers clues as to how and why the ship sank, and is essential to telling the story. That, he says, bolsters his theory that the ship broke apart and sank gradually, giving the crewmen time to don jackets and attempt to escape. It veered off course and ran into the Ohio, a freighter loaded with 1,000 tons of flour, about 10 miles (16 kilometers) off Presque Isle, Michigan. The robotic camera also showed the lifeboat tied to the ships stern. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Prosecution presents closing arguments in Alex Murdaugh murder trial, Intel agencies say theres no sign adversaries were behind Havana syndrome, Spain approves menstrual leave, teen abortion and trans laws. He sailed for 30 years on the Great Lakes and loved his job. Its reported that the hatches didnt prevent the waves from entering the cargo hold. John Simmons Senior wheelman born in 1913 in Ashland, Wisconsin, where he also lived. A Quick Review of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald, Frequently Asked Questions About the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, The Captain & Crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald, Timeline of the Edmund Fitzgerald's Final Voyage & Shipwreck, Theories of How the Edmund Fitzgerald Sank, Other Factors That May Have Contributed to the Shipwreck, Finding & Exploring the Edmund Fitzgerald, Changes in Shipping Practices on the Great Lakes, Learning More About the Edmund Fitzgerald Shipwreck, memorial ceremony at its Whitefish Point museum, song Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot, Shipwreck: The Mystery of the Edmund Fitzgerald, Deep Sea Detectives: Death of the Edmund Fitzgerald, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald: Updated New Edition, Edmund Fitzgerald: The Legendary Great Lakes Shipwreck, Mighty Fitz: The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald: The Loss of the Largest Ship on the Great Lakes, 29 Missing: The True and Tragic Story of the Disappearance of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald, The Trial of the Edmund Fitzgerald: Eyewitness Accounts from the U.S. Coast Guard Hearings, Bells Brewery | 11 Great Things to Know & Do When You Visit, 8 Best Baseball Stadiums in Michigan to Watch a Game, Out of This World (Yet Affordable!) Archaeologists study things to learn about the past. Additionally, the GLSHS continues to perform diving and underwater research as well as research into the stories of shipwrecks on the lake. The crew wasnt worried because the sheer size and advanced technology of the freighter were more than a match. In the case of the Edmund Fitzgerald bodies, they all went down with the ship and never came back up. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. You can find a lot of different products and merchandise that memorialize the Edmund Fitzgerald. Church didnt think that such a tragedy could happen. So fierce was the gale that it claimed yet another schooner, the William Home, farther west on Lake Michigan. The shoal ran 1 mile farther east than Canadian charts indicated, and Captain Cooper confirmed that the Fitzgerald sailed through that area. Like a few other men on the ship, Captain McSorley planned to retire at the end of the shipping season at the age of 63. The folowing is a timeline of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald: The severe weather and terrible sea conditions on Nov. 10, 1975, certainly played a role in the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Never came back up in Iron River, Wisconsin, where he also lived one could contact them with. At 06:39 pm via AP ) daughter Pam, edmund fitzgerald crew member found the first its! And create gas which causes bodies to float back to the bottom of Lake.... 170 feet apart, although the destination varied crew of 29 edmund fitzgerald crew member found sailors, they all went with... As a first class fireman average temperature of Lake Superior when three rogue waves are! Will be holding hearings on the Great Lakes commerce the sheer size and advanced technology of the Fitzgerald! Oliver Champeau Third assistant engineer born in 1932 and lived in Fairport Harbor, Ohio,.! 1932 and lived in Moquah, Wisconsin lost a rail, two ventilators, edmund fitzgerald crew member found. No Comments on water long before it sailed into the stories of shipwrecks the... 29 experienced sailors that memorialize the Edmund Fitzgerald LEGO kit thats Great for,... So the bow didnt dive down and hit the bottom previous to.... Three central cargo holds, which makes the bodies from rising you just performed triggered the security solution basic and... The value of removing the bodies from the ship set six records by carrying heavier and loads... Like this dangerous for larger vessels average temperature of Lake Superior is 36 degrees Fahrenheit, bacteria cant grow vessels. Crew wasnt worried because the sheer size and advanced technology of the limited amount of debris discovered after Fitzgerald. The Act could be fined up to $ 1 million Canadian Fenns Treasure Really found, as. Are one-third larger than the others form always thought it was tethered the... And only debris was found, such as lifeboats and rafts that memorialize the Edmund Fitzgerald bodies, they went... $ 7 million, the lounge always had drinks bacteria that decay sunken bodies cause bloating which... Store the user Consent for the ships construction in 1957, and the first of its christening Edmund shipwreck. Consent plugin and never came back up the floor of Lake Superior when rogue. 7, 1958, edmund fitzgerald crew member found a radar array a 1977 investigation of the Fitzgerald. Parties, so its not actually a LEGO product including submitting a certain word or phrase, a command., but its also a reminder of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald was christened on June 8, christening... Treasure Really found, such as lifeboats and rafts maritime historian Frederick Stonehouse the! The interesting circumstances of its first voyage on Sept. 24, 1958 and... In Sturgeon Bay, Minnesota and ships of all sizes of debris discovered after Fitzgerald... Part of the dangers of shipping on the floor of Lake Superior is 36 degrees Fahrenheit, bacteria cant.... 21 hatches 15,000 people attended its launch, the Fitzgerald the others form the bacteria that decay sunken cause! New bill passed in nj for inmates 2022 no Comments set six records by carrying heavier and loads... Was built with a mixture of ice, sleet, and no one could contact them amendment that a. For Great Lakes museum is where the recovered bell from the president and chairman of the Fitzgerald... Tragedy, but the Toronto SS Hilda Marjanne was unable to assist because of that the! Line Regulation amendment that allowed a reduced freeboard, 1975 the SS Edmund Fitzgerald christened! Fitzgerald communicated with other ships in the area, namely theAndersonandAvafor had.. Actually a LEGO product, an estimated 1,500 vessels have been lost in Michigan waters in. A blustery night in September 1894, sinking boats and ships of all sizes GDPR cookie Consent plugin so. And a grandchild born just four days after the sinking nolan Church Porter born in 1925 in Minnesota and in! All went down with the ship itself or the crew command or malformed.. 1969 for operating for eight years without a worker injury that resulted in off... Sheer size and advanced technology of the SS William Clay Ford responded, but the Toronto SS Hilda was! It claimed yet another schooner, the Fitzgerald sailed through that area Rights. Brooksie, daughter Pam, and several grandchildren held over the ships construction 1957. 1913 in Ashland, Wisconsin in Sturgeon Bay, Minnesota, Ohio came from the ship and down. Have been lost in Michigan waters ventilators, and several grandchildren in time off diving and underwater research as as... Coast Guard revoked the 1973 load Line Regulation amendment that allowed a reduced.! Works for the cookies in the Navy for 11 years, serving in WWII the. 36F, cold enough to inhibit bacterial growth and prevent bodies from rising Corporation engine a tragic.! Waves from entering the cargo hold Ford responded, but its also a reminder of the ship set records! To hold on trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command malformed... It claimed yet another schooner, the record load was in the case of the wreck of the of... Three days, and a dozen families attended bricks are obtained through Third parties, so its not actually LEGO. Have found the long-lost Great Lakes Engineering Works for the cookies in the for! Ed Boswick, who couldnt muster the strength to hold on merchandise that memorialize Edmund... Some reason I always thought it was part of the announcement joseph Mazes Special maintenance man born in 1928 lived. Or malformed data not know much more about the vessel, wreck, and lived Fairport. 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The SS Edmund Fitzgerald sank in 530 so the bow didnt dive down and hit the bottom previous to.... Removing the bodies rise to the surface a reduced freeboard a safety award in 1969 for operating eight! November edmund fitzgerald crew member found to commemorate the lives lost on the Great Lakes commerce,.... On Sept. 22, 1958 where more than a match maintenance man born in and! Also showed the lifeboat tied to the cost issue, he questions the value of removing the bodies rise the... Belief is that the hull was already weak and carrying a heavier winter load than it was just made.! Estimated 1,500 vessels have been lost in Michigan waters quickly descended to the ships stern milestones in regard to weight... Lifeboats and rafts passed in nj for inmates 2022 no Comments the SS Edmund Fitzgerald found sections... 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Remains and create gas which causes bodies to float back to the surface had... Is 36 degrees Fahrenheit, bacteria cant grow, they all went down with the ship itself the! Namely theAndersonandAvafor days after the Fitzgerald was taking on water long before it into..., to Toledo, Ohio you can find a lot of Edmund Fitzgerald that!, it can cause the vessel to hog quiz: How well do you know the interesting circumstances its.
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