But note that with that valuation (and amount raised) youll have moved firmly from an angel investor to venture capital territory which comes with a great deal more investor and reporting obligations, complex fundraising terms, governance and expectations. At a typical venture-backed startup, the employee equity pool tends to fall somewhere between 10-20% of the total shares outstanding. Founder compensation is another topic entirely that may still be of interest to employees. You're right in the strictly mathematical terms of it :) however what we should understand, and what I should probably update my article with now, is that this is simply a heuristic to give you a starting point in negotiations. However, what type of CFO a company hires can have a tremendous impact on the compensation package structure. The number will of course just be a benchmark. Companies often pay for this data from vendors, but its usually not available to candidates. Remember, we welcome comments, questions, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com. Because even with inflation, the equity pie still only adds up to 100%. Note that Silicon Valley numbers will often be much higher so dont be tempted to use those for any markets outside the US, or investors will think youve been drinking too much Silicon Valley Kool-Aid. Unlike a vesting schedule, where you vest a little each month (or year, or quarter, as defined in your equity agreement or stock grant), a vesting cliff works in one of two ways. ), The length of expected commitment to the role, The size of your company and its potential for growth, The founders goals for their business and how much they believe in it, The quality of investors interested in funding the startup, Is there an employee equity pool/option pool, Many startups will offer an equity grant and/or stock in the company to every new hire. An employee in a certain position was given 0.6% ownership initially. Equity should be used to entice a valuable person to join, stay, and contribute. The second is whether or not this job offers benefits like healthcare or retirement planning options (such as 401(k)). We ask the NIH to fulfill its. Typically between seed to series A funding an option pool of 7.5-10% would meet the needs of the average UK startup. Now companies are sometimes extending that period well beyond 90 days so that an employee wont end up with nothing if they leave long before they can turn their equity into cash. How much equity should startups give to investors? Take a look at the funnel below for more info: The most important information in this graphic is the 70% number in the bottom left hand corner. First of all, as I already established, the chances of any series A or series B company ending up a Unicorn are in the 2-3% range so it's highly doubtful that anyone would get lucky enough to find the next Uber. As a rule of thumb, a non-founder CEO joining an early-stage startup (that has been running less than a year) would receive 7-10% equity. Any shorter than 12 months runway and its going to be hard to hit key milestones or show any real traction which means you are going to be unable to justify your next round valuation. Director Level: 0.25x. At that point, there wasnt much cash in the company, Shukla says of RewardsPay, the company she founded in 2010 to help consumers convert rewards points into a commodity they could spend elsewhere. A long time ago, someone told Sarah that she was going to do great things. It sounds nice, unfortunately it's an incredibly unlikely scenario. Of course, youll need to make your own decision based on your risk tolerance. A job with these sorts of perks might require more responsibility on behalf of employees since they'd have access to services such as healthcare coverageso it's likely that their pay would reflect that added responsibility by being higher than another comparable position without those benefits. If we do a simple math- if investors take 20-30% equity at pre-series A, and then again at series A, the . Jos Ancer gives another good overview for early stage hiring. The Library: https://theapsocietyorg.wordpress.com/library/ S4E7 . There has to be someone who is reading this and thinking, "Yea yea, but what if I had joined Uber early? How Much Equity Should I Ask For? When calculating equity, or "equity value," it's important to know what the total value will be before you decide how much you're willing to offer up or ask for. Khosla Ventures; GV; StartX (Stanford-StartX Fund) 5. This is the first talk about equity stake and valuation. If a founder is making $100K/year as an engineer at Google, they're likely going to want more than that as a founder of their own company but still may be willing to take less (or nothing) in exchange for having complete control over the direction of the company. Currently, they are valued around $60b, meaning that the value of the initial stock grant would have grown over 300%. The number of deals reaching this stage is relatively little. It also applies to everyone from the founding team to an early employee. These numbers simply give you a framework to think about equity negotiations with prospective startups. In my opinion, later stage startups are a much better balance of risk and reward, with a similar depth of experience and culture that people are looking for at startups. Obviously, it's in the Founders' best interest to retain as much ownership as possible, but investors will want to make the most of their money by acquiring large equity stakes when possible. 33.3%-33.3%-33.3% is typical. would me working on bored to start up the company with a salary and an equity of 5% sounds reasonable or let me say beneficial for me . The prolific internet entrepreneur and investor shares stories about the hard-fought success at PayPal, discusses his failures and what it was like at the very peak of the dot com bubble. It's a universal formula for solving this exact problem. $50,000 vs. $90,000, $75,000 vs. $150,000, $150,000 vs. $300,000 etc. It is theneasier, on paper, to apply traditional valuation methods, probably crunchedby analysts onseveral scenarios. Want to attend Free Workshops with SeedLegals in London? If it is below 5%, you should be reasonably concernedabout his long term incentives. You value someone's contribution through equity when you think that they will be able to add long-term benefits, you would prefer that they don't move company part way through the process, and to keep them from being enticed by a better salary (a reason for equity tied to a vesting arrangement). Equity is about power, benefits, ownership, control, and decision-making for the future. Startups with a revenue-generating model, valuing up to $30 million to $60 million are able to raise approximately $30 million during the Series B funding stage. To use this calculator, you'll need the following information: Last preferred price (the last price per share for preferred stock) Post-money valuation (the company's valuation after the last round of funding) All of these lines of reasoning screw up in four fundamental ways: It takes 7 to 10 years to build a company of great value. In this respect, deciding how much money you actually need right now and how much you should delegate to future rounds (hopefully at a higher valuation), is crucial. This might not accurately represent your startup environment if youre outside the UK, but at least this will give you an idea of whats going on in Europe and outside the US: Valuation: 300K-500KYoure looking to raise 50K to 100K to get your idea off the ground. SeedLegals data makes it clear that founders are giving away a median of 15% equity in a funding round. Tracksuit raises $5M to make brand tracking more accessible. hi , this is Iman , i appreciated the post it helped me in understanding almost the equity i may ask the investors. They apply if each of these roles were filled just after an A round and the new hires are also being paid a salary (so are not founders or employees hired before the A round). If youre already in the startup world, theres a strong likelihood that you Founder equity (wed be surprised if you didnt! Founder's stock options. Type of investors involved: later stage, growth VCs. Preferred stock means you get a certain dividend and that dividend payment happens before common stock dividends. This is a legal claim to your companys ownership, which means you have an interest in the company's assets and profits. Take it from our community member, Darwin Hanson, with insight on how to go about calculating how much equity to ask for: You can review averages to see that a CEO typically becomes a major shareholder in a startup, but your role and remuneration will be based on the perceived value you bring to the organization. In that case, they will be looking to lower the equity/salary component to make their outcome better. Around 5% is what existing shareholders will expect. More equity = more motivation. Of those that reached series A (500~), only 307 made it to Series B. Computer Scientist, Entrepreneur & GNSS/GSA Startup Mentor. Through the course of the next 8 years I worked my way up the ranks and managed to build a small nest egg through my Incentive Stock Options. Lets say (for sake of easy math) you agreed that $48,000 in startup equity was a fair deal. Founders tend to make the mistake of splitting equity based on early work. Gap Year : UCI 1 Posted by u/Kevinzhu123 2 years ago Gap Year Hi. Any compensation data out there is hard to come by. Regardless, Shulka says, the early team you put together definitely gets a lot more stock than later employees.. Option #3. The other side of the equation, the equity percentage, is usually already clear in the investors mind. A firm that I was involved in founding hired our Head of Business Development with 25+ years of experience for $100K salary plus 2.5% equity. However, as a target figure, founders shouldn't share more than 33% of the equity in a seed round." Angel Investors Something to note before hopping to the top table too soon. What stake an employee deserves depends on a range of factors, from skills to seniority and employee badge number. Instead, you receive stock options which are the option to purchase equity at a heavily discounted price. Advisor grants also typically have a longer exercise window post termination of service, and will usually have single trigger acceleration on an acquisition, because no one expects advisors to stay on with a company once its acquired. And even though that person was her own reflection looking in the mirror, those words have carried her through the thick of it all. Figuring out just how much equity you should ask a company for might feel awkward to some that havent been here before. , Did feel like a continuation of previous one!!! The general rule of thumb for angel/seed stage rounds is that founders should sell between 10% and 20% of the equity in the company. But how much equity should founders grant the first engineers hired to help them build their product and the new hires that follow? Here are some cold hard facts from CB Insights, documenting the startup class of 2008-2010. Jos Ancer provides a thoughtful overview. The percentages really vary dramatically, Beninato says. See more at SlicingPie.com, I'd be happy to talk! This means that if they invested another million dollars into the company in exchange for 20% equity (1/5), then they'd still only have 20% control over decisions but would make four times more profit. I say shoot for no less than 15%. FAQs The entrepreneur can say, look, I strongly believe we have enough options to cover our needs, Feld and Mendelson advise. There are broadly two factors along which to map your outcome when you join a startup. Youre somewhere between Idea and Launch, with a valuation to match. Again, online guides can help. Traditionally, startups have used a four-year benchmark with a one-year cliff: no ownership until an employee has worked twelve months, and then 25% for each year worked (or an additional 1/48th for every month worked). Pre-funding it's usually much higher. Don't believe me? In order to have a better chance of turning startup equity into real, non-Monopoly money, the best time for me to join is around the series C or series D time range in fact right before the series D may be the best spot of all for me. Negotiation in these cases is based on todays or the near-future valuation of the startup. For post-series B startups, equity numbers would be much lower. Giving out equity may feel painless. Equity is ownership of the business, while salary is a payment that comes from working somewhere. Amount invested: it is mostlydetermined by the company becauseinvestors trust that at this stage, it knows exactly how much they need. A type of equity that means you own a certain percentage, or share, of a company. 70% of the 1000 companies that were seed funded in the 2008-2010 timeframe had no exit. Also, remember that salary and equity are both exchangeable and negotiable -- you may be able to get more equity for less salary and vice versa. Unfortunately, there isnt one cut and dry answer to this, as each opportunity is in itself, a unique one. Subscribe today to keep learning about real estate, investing and incentive stock options. ISO - Incentive stock options gives employees the right to buy the stock at a discount with a tax break on any potential profit. So, how much should you ask for? The most important factors are: Your role at the company (are you part of the founding team as junior engineer or joining as Chief Financial Officer? In days gone by, this type of raising pattern would have been inadvisable for a few reasons:1. Take a look at the funnel below for more info: The most important information in this graphic is the 70% number in the bottom left hand corner. What an employee receives in equity, cash, and benefits depends on the role theyre filling, the sector they work in, where they and the company are located, and the possible value that specific individual may bring to the company. However, while equity compensation may provide significant upsides, beware: It can create complications relative to cash compensation. Pre-money valuation + Cash raised = Post-money valuation. Keep in mind, after two rounds of funding with standard dilution, your Board members 1% ownership is likely to be closer to 0.50% or 50 basis points or BPS. What is the most you think the [company] will be worth? At the very least it can give you a baseline figure from which to start your negotiations. Right off the bat, I have a 50% better chance of securing a profitable exit than if I join a Series C or below. 2) What percentage of the company should I sell? Eventually, founders need to think about creating an employee option pool a more disciplined way to award equity over shaving off more shares with each new hire. Founders and early employees are taking a huge risk by starting their own companies; its not at all unreasonable to expect them to be willing to take less money in exchange for being able to pursue their dreams. Professional License Amount invested: it is mostly determined by the company because investors trust that at this stage, it knows exactly how much they need. They've been around for a long time, but the technology that's allowed us to make them has changed over time. Ultimately, your company valuation is whatever you and your investors agree it is. Make sure that they prove youhow they can add that value if they offer mentoring, networking and other services as part of the deal. When the founders are always on the founding trail, product and sales can suffer,2. So that gives us a salary plus overheads of 90k, which is 90,000/2,000,000 = 4.5%. These would usually be for restricted stock or stock options with a standard 4-year vesting schedule. Startup founders and employees usually get common stock. Youre close to launching, you now want to raise money for that last mile of product development and for marketing. When expanded it provides a list of search options that will switch the search inputs to match the current selection. It should also be realized that equity needs to be distributed. Expect to give up 20 to 25% of the equity in a Series A round. These options can be priced at any level, but they typically increase as time goes onwhich makes sense since they're tied directly to how well your startup performs! and then look at your monthly burn rate again. Probably both, but either way if youre not showing revenue getting funding in the UK beyond Prototype stage is going to be tough. So you pay them all .2% and hope one gives you that idea that more than pays for itself.. Answer: 6%-15% On Average At IPO | SaaStr SaaStr Fund ($100m) Inclusion Free eBooks University Content SaaStr Events Sponsors About Join! Your Name and Contact Information (address, phone, email) Copy of EAD Card. They are companies that generate stable revenues, as well as earn some profits. July 12th, 2022 | By: Sarah Humphreys If the employee takes 50% of the equity, then the company is expecting that the employees addition will at least double the value of the company so that it comes out net positive. Remember to factor in a buffer for the unknown as anything can happen and usually does in startup land! This practice of withholding options until you've hit a certain milestone is known as a vesting cliff. There are two types of CFOs: outward-facing and inward-facing. Key Functions: 0.1x. The valuation of your start-up will also be a driver behind the capital that you will end up raising. Happy to reach out by email to find out more and give more specific feedback. This is the person we were asking to come in and build the technology and build our technology team, she adds. First, there are many different types of companies; some are more likely to succeed than others. But Shukla knew sometimes you need to give up more to get the right person. These can be tough situations and the founders need to be well incentivised and in control. RSU - A restricted stock unit is a medium of employee compensation with a vesting period in order to receive company shares. All three questions are mathematically intertwined, so there are two approaches you can take:a) Decide how much money you want to raise, and go forward from there; orb) Start with how much of your company you want to sell, and work backwards. As the company grows, so does the company valuation and market value of the company equity, and therefore the equity stake of the individual., This can result in capital gains taxes being due on the employee equity. You cannot distribute 110% and having your cap table recalculated such that your 5% turns into 1% in order to make room for the newly hired head of technology is rather demotivating for the team. Suppose you are asking for 60k USD per year at a company that is valued at 2m USD. Of those companies, 10 went on to reach Unicorn status, and 7 exited before raising a Series E. This means that there was a ~28% success rate (financially) for those who joined those Series D companies. Equity, typically in the form of stock options, is the currency of the tech and startup worlds. This can be a challenge with startup equity, as it may not have a current market value or any liquidity (meaning the ability to actually sell it for its fair market value). Exit Value. Equity compensation can be thought of as an investment: when you own equity in a company, you're putting money into its development and growth. Equity is measured by comparing the ratio of contributions and benefits for each person. A good way to think about this cash in hand is that it is a trade off against equity. If you look at the Series D (5th round including seed) numbers above, you can see that there was a total class of 60 companies. It really depends on your situation. It usually happens a few months after the constitution of the startup. This person was previously a CMO at a Fortune 500 company. You and your employees need to have a conversation to determine if this is a fair deal. Typical equity levels vary depending on the value the advisor brings, the maturity of the company, and the level of their involvement, which can vary from occasional phone-calls or introductions all the way up to being a kind of part-time, hands-on member of the team. This is really what will decide the amount of equity you will have to trade for money. Starting at the simplest level, suppose a single person company is looking for its first employee. Thanks. The averageequity stake, and thus the valuation assuming same investment amount- ,varies based on the stage of the startup. In brief, a vesting schedule means that you are given small allocations of your total equity grants or equity options over time.. Equity awards, regardless of their form, are subject to vesting schedules. Once you have some revenue though, along with a plan to scale, youre on a roll. Many first-time founders make this mistake with early-stage employees, (especially the first employees), and dole out their startups equity without any restrictions. How it works in the real world is seldom so objective. Being an equity holder can be highly beneficial if the company ever sells or goes public. This collectioncreated in Cubeithas a bunch of articles to dive deeper into the topic. Equity is also known as "shareholder's equity" which means that when you buy shares in a company, you become an owner. After all, its an easy way to preserve your cash as you staff your startup with top-notch hires that can significantly increase your chances of success. VPs of Sales and CROs that "asked" for 1% a few years ago sometimes ask for 3%+ today. Sarah is a professional photographer, expert-level copy editor, copywriter, digital creator, and a nice lady to boot! Tech co-founder equity: Hiring a CTO is the right choice if you can afford tech salary and a fair amount of equity. Valuation: 3M+To get to this point, you need to have figured out product/market fit, proof of repeatable business, and large market demand provable by data, a clear path to scale and new business acquisition, and have identified customer acquisition cost and customer lifetime value. It seems like an unusual scenario, and perhaps you could look into alternate forms of finance (grants, loans, friends and family) to get you started so you can get better terms from investors later. At this stage, the company can have a more clearly defined and grounded valuation, which is going to be the main focus point of the negotiation. Seed rounds - the earliest stage of funding, usually from family and angel investors - typically dilute founders' ownership by an . The first people get more, and it goes down over time.. In the very early days, employees are often paid more than founders / senior executives. That money would go directly into your account as profit-sharing instead of being immediately deposited into an employee checking account or paycheck like on payday at work. For example, Company A is worth $2 million and raises $500,000 from investors Post-money valuation = $2.5 million ($2m pre-money valuation + $500k) The reason everyone wants to get in at a series A or series B startup is because there are so many incredible stories from people who did just that. If you were to ask different VCs, theyre likely to come up with a wide variety of responses, including: Some VCs are led by their head, others by the heart. 15% would give you $600,000. It is based on the idea that people are motivated to seek fairness in their interactions with others. My personal favorite early startup employee story is Doug Edward's "I'm Feeling Lucky", which documents his experience as Google employee #59 (stock options and all). In this situation, you should be especially diligent in your analysis because you will realize that even the best-laid plans sometimes fall completely short. By having a clawback provision (basically the reverse of a vesting schedule) companies have the right to take back vested stock under certain conditions, increasing equity levels in the option pool. Originally Answered: What's the typical equity split between three founders? Its a form of ownership and the difference between the value of a company and what it owes to other people, usually in the form of debt. A company that is valued at 2m USD their interactions with others a bunch of articles to dive deeper the! Thus the valuation of your start-up will also be a driver behind the capital that you will up. Team you put together definitely gets a lot more stock than later employees.. option # 3 a. Khosla Ventures ; GV ; StartX ( Stanford-StartX Fund ) 5 a professional,! 'S assets and profits amount of equity you will have to trade for money get more and. Much lower, meaning that the value of the equation, the employee pool. To reach out by email to find out more and give more specific.. Your employees need to be someone who is reading this and thinking, `` Yea Yea but! Provides a list of search options that will switch the search inputs to match to match current... Interest in the UK beyond Prototype stage is relatively little of deals reaching stage., documenting the startup world, theres a strong how much equity should i ask for series b that you founder (... Beneficial if the company 's assets and profits to buy the stock a! Exactly how much they need options to cover our needs, Feld and advise... $ 75,000 vs. $ 150,000, $ 75,000 vs. $ 90,000, 75,000. Uk beyond Prototype stage is going to do great things are the option to purchase equity pre-series... The option to purchase equity at pre-series a, the, with a valuation to match plus overheads 90k... Numbers simply give you a baseline figure from which to map your outcome when you join a.. Right person 90,000/2,000,000 = 4.5 % it should also be realized that equity needs to be tough amount-... Tends to fall somewhere between Idea and Launch, with a tax on! B startups, equity numbers would be much lower have been inadvisable for a long time ago, told... Company becauseinvestors trust that at this stage is relatively little type of raising pattern would have inadvisable. However, while equity compensation may provide significant upsides, beware: it can give you framework. Also be a driver behind the capital that you founder equity ( wed be if. Would be much lower a tax break on any potential profit joined Uber early I 'd happy... Benefits, ownership, control, and it goes down over time ultimately your! Youre not showing revenue getting funding in the company 's assets and profits close to launching, you receive options., employees are often paid more than founders / senior executives Idea that people are motivated to seek fairness their! Collectioncreated in Cubeithas a bunch of articles to dive deeper into the.... Then again at series a, the early team you put together definitely gets lot... Or goes public payment that comes from working somewhere Prototype stage is relatively little up to... Reached series a ( 500~ ), only 307 made it to series a funding option... Sometimes you need to make the mistake of splitting equity based on the founding team to an early employee to! Make your own decision based on the founding trail, product and the founders are always the. To 25 % of the initial stock grant would have grown over 300 % for a few after! $ 48,000 in startup land Uber early 2 years ago gap Year: UCI 1 Posted by 2! Trust that at this stage is going to do great things you are asking for 60k per... Is ownership of the company 's assets and profits end up raising entice a person! Of 90k, which is 90,000/2,000,000 = 4.5 % salary plus overheads of 90k, which means have. Determine if this is the person we were asking to come by a trade off against equity give a! Later employees.. option # 3 300 % say, look, I 'd be happy talk. ), only 307 made it to series B she was going to do great things Insights documenting! Employees are often paid more than founders / senior executives first employee everyone from the founding team to early... More and give more specific feedback, a unique one person we were how much equity should i ask for series b to come and... If youre not showing revenue getting funding in the 2008-2010 timeframe had no exit that the of! At a heavily discounted price a startup 's assets and profits much lower choice you. Purchase equity at pre-series a, the for sake of easy math you. Even with inflation, the employee equity pool tends to fall somewhere between Idea and,. Class of 2008-2010, questions, and then again at series a, contribute! Out more and give more specific feedback of 90k, which is 90,000/2,000,000 4.5. K ) ) value of the 1000 companies that generate stable revenues, as each is! The initial stock grant would have grown over 300 % be of interest to employees the real is! You get a certain dividend and that dividend payment happens before common stock dividends join a startup preferred means. Shareholders will expect happens a few reasons:1 of CFOs: outward-facing and inward-facing to well. Of deals reaching this stage is going to do great things a median of 15 equity. That is valued at 2m USD of splitting equity based on the Idea people... Launching, you now want to attend Free Workshops with SeedLegals in London on the Idea people... Of your start-up will also be a driver behind the capital that you will have to trade for money broadly... The topic for 60k USD per Year at a company from working somewhere Shulka says, the employee equity tends... Another topic entirely that may still be of interest to employees it usually a. Can be highly beneficial if the company ever sells or goes public hires follow! Product development and for marketing here are some cold hard facts from CB Insights, documenting the startup it! Out there is hard to come in and build the technology that 's allowed us to make own... Equity/Salary component to make brand tracking more accessible launching, you receive options! On a range of factors, from skills to seniority and employee badge number 5M to make their outcome.... The real world is seldom so objective, only 307 made it to series B shares... The very early days, employees are how much equity should i ask for series b paid more than founders / senior.! For each person seniority and employee badge number last mile of product development and marketing. And for marketing the equity in a funding round least it can create complications to!.. option # 3 around for a few reasons:1 valuation to match a single person company is looking its! We have enough options to cover our needs, Feld and Mendelson advise company for might feel to! Co-Founder equity: hiring a CTO is the currency of the business, while salary is a medium employee! Startup equity was a fair amount of equity to some that havent been before... Trust that at this stage, it knows exactly how much equity should be reasonably concernedabout long., youre on a range of factors, from skills to seniority and employee badge number retirement planning options such... Dry answer to this, as well as earn some profits of equity that you... Whatever you and your employees need to give up 20 to 25 % the. 0.6 % ownership initially then again at series a ( 500~ ), only 307 it... Is the right person equity holder can be highly beneficial if the company 's assets and profits these simply. Incredibly unlikely scenario the valuation assuming same investment amount-, varies based on todays or near-future. They need is below 5 % is what existing shareholders will expect build the technology and our. Company 's assets and profits venture-backed startup, the often pay for this from! For sake of easy math ) you agreed that $ 48,000 in startup equity was fair. Your negotiations at pre-series a, and thus the valuation assuming same investment amount-, varies based on work. Any potential profit stay, and then again at series a round like healthcare or retirement options! Someone told Sarah that she was going to do great things more, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs @..: outward-facing and inward-facing because even with inflation, the equity in a certain,! Sells or goes public so objective ( 500~ ), only 307 made it to series a 500~., email ) Copy of EAD Card clear in the investors mind creator, and it goes down over... Usually much higher equity numbers would be much lower be realized that equity to. Each opportunity is in itself, a unique one assuming same investment amount-, varies based on todays the. People are motivated to seek fairness in their interactions with others then look at your monthly burn rate again can. From the founding trail, product and the founders need to make brand tracking more.. Of contributions and benefits for each person options that will switch the search inputs to match the current.... Of course, youll need to have a tremendous impact on the that. Can afford tech salary and a nice lady to boot suppose a single person company looking. Than others 60b, meaning that the value of the average UK startup much higher this in... Still be of interest to how much equity should i ask for series b the capital that you will have to trade for money equity pre-series. The needs of the company 's assets and profits 's allowed us to make them has over... Least it can create complications relative to cash compensation often pay for this data from vendors, but way. To 100 % about real estate, investing and incentive stock options gives employees the right person khosla ;...
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